More 2 Marketing

Susan
More to marketing. Welcome to more 2 marketing, a podcast that explores marketing, product and everything in between. I’m your host, Susan, and today we’re going to talk entrepreneurship. I would love to introduce Michael, who has been instrumental in the evolution of the digital retail space within Australia and overseas, and is really a pioneer. In entrepreneurship itself, too, Michael is a visionary. He brings to life amazing concepts with the customer at its heart. I’d really love him to share more about himself and his career, cause there’s no one. Better to do it. So welcome Michael.
Michael
Hey Susan. Thanks for having me on your podcast today.
Susan
I appreciate your time. I know time is very little on your side. You’re doing so much. So let’s hear about what you’re up to at the moment.
Michael
Sounds great. So we’ll start from the end maybe. So today, Co founder and CEO of Spacer Technologies, which is a leading property technology platform for helping people to monetize. Underutilised spaces and so typically that might look like a parking spot or a storage space, both in Australia and in North America. So across Canada and the US. Yeah. So that’s what we’re up to today.
Susan
I I do love the idea because I’ve seen many of your ads as well that have come out about if you’ve got a spare, say you’re an apartment building and you have to use your storage space, you’re getting charged for that and your rent anyway, so why not supplement some of that by renting it out to someone? So I think that’s a really particularly now with the economic conditions, I think that’s a really handy way for that passive income to come in.
Michael
Yeah, absolutely. It’s it’s really a very simple concept and it feels like a no brainer if you’ve got space that you’re not using, whether that’s a a lock up garage or a a driveway, why not share that with people in the community who may need that and and some handy extra income? So it’s it’s a very simple idea, difficult to execute on as any 2 sided. Marketplace is you’ve got the chicken and the egg of you know what comes first. Supply and demand at a Hyperloop.
Michael
Level, but that’s all part of the fun.
Susan
Definitely. And I I remember seeing one example where someone was like you can use my space to park a boat if you like. So some of those things that you may not think that people have issues with, there are there are ways to solve it and that’s what this spacer is helping everyone with.
Michael
Yeah, you, you know, in some suburbs, certainly in Sydney, you’ll see, you know, rows of, you know, trailer boats and RV’s and old caravans rotting away on the side. Of the the street. Where they have no, you know, limits to the parking. Which is a real shame to see that people need, you know, there’s obviously demand, but there’s better ways, we believe and we we believe we’re part of that solution and helping. People. Store their assets so as you said, people are very resourceful. It could be an RV, it could be a caravan, could be a trailer boat, or it might just be grandma’s all just a drawers. You know, you really want to hang on to maybe it doesn’t suit the design of your home, but you just you can’t bear to give it a. Just yet.
Susan
Ohh, amazing. And what else have you been up to in recent? Years as well.
Michael
Not much hair left so. Yes, but since we last caught up at deal Direct, which was a great journey, I’ve been sitting on a few boards, so really immersed myself in the share economy. It’s a space I’m very passionate about. So about seven or eight years ago, I got involved and invested in a bunch of Australian share economy businesses. So some quite well known ones like car next door. Which has now been acquired by Uber Uber car share. Got involved with a bunch of other sort of startups, mad paws and a host of others. So yeah, really passionate about the space. And I’ve met some really amazing people. You know, founders of these businesses and team members and yeah, it’s it’s a really great space and there’s some really amazing people. Work. Looking in it.
Susan
And I just saw that mad pause hit an all time high as well. They’re they’re hitting some amazing goals.
Michael
Yeah, I think yesterday I read that they had their first profitable month, which is a, which is a huge milestone particularly for you know, VC funded businesses which their aim isn’t to be profitable initially. It’s really to to grow and and and build. The ecosystem and then obviously eventually become financially sustainable, which I guess is what their focus is now being a listed company. But yeah, well done to Alexis and Eustice and the whole team there. And Shannon, who we used to work with that deals director is office manager there and shanny. Yeah.
Susan
Ohh. Fantastic. Yep, haven’t seen her for a while, but go Penrith. They did well for her. What? What inspired you along your entrepreneurship journey? Because I know that you you did a lot in the very first E commerce space as well. Finding a gap in. Market, but but what really? Inspired you to go down that path.
Michael
Yeah, it’s a really interesting question and I don’t think it was necessarily a conscious decision, but from an early age. Really, you know, being a a nerd, I hung out with all the nerds at school. All. My friends.
Susan
Nothing wrong with that.
Michael
All my best mates were, you know, the sort of the smartest kids at the school. Me. Not so. But, you know, I learned a lot from them and I had great, you know, very intellectual conversations and a lot of them went on to do PhDs and computer science and. Different science and math degrees and stuff, and I was a uni dropout, you know, but I I was also really interested in. Business. And so I guess you know, I sort of put the two together and my love and passion of technology, computers and. And business and so early on, I started a web development company when I was 14 with my best mate in high school. Harvey took is now very senior at Google Cloud in in Boston and we’re still really good mates each other every year. And that’s sort of how I got started. So I was just learning by doing. I did start off at unions at Macquarie Uni doing a a business degree and within a year I dropped out. I just fell asleep in lectures which I hear is not that uncommon. But I just had no interest in sort of being told how to learn and I preferred. And by experiencing things and making mistakes. So I guess the entrepreneurial path was kind of the only way for me, I I was unemployable and I needed to find something to do. And so that’s how I got started.
Susan
And that that’s an amazing cause. It shows that even from a young age you had that aspiration to do something different. You wanted to try and test, to learn, but again, not everyone has to go to university to be a success. It’s about following your passion, your gut. That’s what you did.
Michael
Yeah. And I was very fortunate my parents were. I mean, they certainly would have preferred if they’d stuck out in university. I think were quite worried when I dropped out. You know, I think my mum, I just said, oh, are you ever gonna leave home and these sorts of things. But they were very supportive. Underneath it all, they weren’t sort of tiger parents, they they valued education. My mum was a school teacher.
Michael
But my dad was a career man, he family man, but he had the same job for 42 years. You. Know. So me being going down a different sort of career path. And. It was a little bit foreign to them, but but they were supportive. So yeah, I didn’t have that sort of issue to contend with, which was lucky. And they let me stay at home for. The first year or so while I was starting auction brokers, Paul and we weren’t drawing any money out of the business. So I think I I did a few part time jobs just to pay the the train ticket to work and then eventually I said, oh, I think when they started charging me board, I think I started. To move out. I’m going to pay. I’ll live where I want to live.
Susan
Exactly closer. So I have to pay. For that train fare.
Michael
Exactly.
Susan
And and again it just shows that with perseverance you kept at it like we said at the very beginning, you don’t necessarily get returned straight away, but it’s. About. Persevering on it going the right course, changing course if you need to to make something successful where there’s a gap.
Michael
Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes where you start isn’t where you end up, but it’s, yeah, that’s all part of the fun and and the journey and.
Michael
Lots of highs and lows. Definitely like a roller coaster, but I think entrepreneurs wouldn’t have it any other way. You know, some days we’d say, oh, maybe we should go and get a job. And I did actually apply for one after a deal truck. Ohh, maybe. Maybe I should just try this corporate thing and I totally stuffed it up and I thought no, that’s that’s a sign. Not for me. What’s next?
Michael
Let’s find another business to start.
Susan
Well, that’s the thing. I’d I’d assume with entrepreneurship, you being the entrepreneur of it, the owner and the one that’s pushing it along. You your control of a lot of the decision making, so going into corporate, there have been a lot more red tape where you wouldn’t be able to be as inventive or have as much initiative as you’d hope to have.
Michael
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That’s definitely one of the reasons to to to start your own business, whether it’s a startup or a more traditional business business is be your own boss. You can tap into that creative flair, whatever that might look like. I mean, I’m quite nerdy. I don’t know if it’s I’m creative, but.
Michael
Yeah. But yeah, do things your own way. Try things. Yes, set, set the culture, all that sort of stuff. So yeah, you got a lot more flex, a lot more pressure, a lot more responsibility. Ultimately you’re on, you’re accountable for everything but. Yeah, there’s. From my perspective, there’s more pros and. Cons. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Susan
And a lot of people look for gaps or problems to solve. Being an entrepreneur, is that a part of what you did as your process? What was the inspiration behind how you’ve gone about your different businesses?
Michael
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if I go back to auction brokers, which then became deals direct, the problem that we were solving was we were helping corporates to to sell their excess inventory, their end of line inventory when they brought new models to market, they didn’t want to muddy the market with. Let’s say in Harvey Norman, they wanted to have the latest computer on display and selling that and not confusing people with last year’s model at a cheaper price. And so they would sell that through us on eBay or we would help them sell that on eBay. And so we helped solve that problem for. For corporates. And and I guess from a consumer perspective who are helping them get access to products at a much better price and that’s really what drove us. It was love, a bargain with our slogan and we used to say it all the time, probably annoyed the heck out of you season because all the time everything was love, a bargain.
Susan
Hey, it worked for the target market. That’s that’s the whole point about it. It really did resonate.
Michael
Yeah. Yeah. And I think we were really true to that vision that, that mantra.
Susan
Definitely.
Michael
And now it’s space. So really as I said, whilst it’s it’s not a. A. A A sexy idea. It’s a there’s a real need, right? That we’re solving and. That. Was and I got this idea from going to the US and meeting with entrepreneurs and startups and going to demo days and stuff. It wasn’t a new idea, but it just hadn’t been well executed yet, and it hadn’t been done in Australia. And so I thought, well, what a great idea like people have these. Empty garages all over the place. There’s hundreds of thousands, if not a million plus. Yeah, there’s 10 million homes in Australia with 10% of them be empty with the garages probably. So what if those spaces could be better utilised by others in their neighbourhood? If you don’t have a garage or you need an extra space for the kids bikes and your golf clubs and your, you know, whatever. What if you could rent one in your local within your street or within your neighbourhood, and that person could earn some extra income. So that was the problem we were solving. And as I said, whilst it wasn’t. It’s not like crypto or fashion or it’s not like super sexy. There’s a real need and an everyday need. So yeah, that’s what that’s what attracted us to that market and it’s a big, big addressable market as well.
Susan
And you’re 100% right. I’ve even heard very high figures of just houses alone being empty as well within. Yeah. So if you put that map over across into the US, North America, Canada. I’m sure there’s quite a large percentage there as well that’s quite untapped.
Michael
Yeah, there’s some stats out there around parking. There’s something like 2 billion parking spaces in the US, and you know, the population’s 320 odd million. So what’s that? You know, seven, you know, six or seven car spaces for every vehicle. Now, of course, you do need to have some extras because they’re talking about shopping centres and all sorts of things, right.
Michael
But still there are many more car spaces than there are vehicles, but they’re not necessarily where you need them. So I guess what we’re helping is, is tapping into helping. Make available and let people know these spaces are available in your neighbourhood. We don’t need to go and build new car parks, there’s plenty of spots available using using our platform you can or others. We can tap into those, yeah.
Susan
And I’m assuming it was a lot of this. There’s been growth happen as well behind the scenes and sometimes it can be quite fast sometimes. I mean slow in regards to that, how do you actually up and down size your team to be able to maintain your scalability? What steps have? You gone in for doing and processing that within the area.
Michael
Yeah, look, we started really late. We did raise money upfront because we knew looking at other marketplaces globally, 2 sided marketplaces, they they take quite a lot of investment to get off the ground. You got that chicken and egg situation where you gotta build the supply before you build the demand. And we used to say deals, right? You can’t sell off an empty shelf, right? And so we had to get the stock, the inventory and.
Michael
That took time. You know, we launched on Channel 7 news nationally and the day before that we had like 30 listings, most of which were me and my friends and my family and my dog. And we all had listings. And then the next day we had 300. We thought we’d made it and then it took us a month to get our first booking.
Susan
I remember.
Michael
But we, you know, the the crazy thing is it didn’t actually scare us. We weren’t even worried that we weren’t transacting, and we just wanted to get more and more supplies. So that was a big focus and we. Used. To go out and you know, we’d go to people’s houses and we would list the spaces for them in photographs.
Susan
Yep, take all the photos and everything.
Michael
Yeah, you know, the old Airbnb story? Yeah, but to answer your your question about scaling up. So yeah, we started small. It was a team of, you know, less than a handful of us now. There’s about sixty of us. So the team has really grown over that last sort of six or seven years.
Michael
So yeah, I mean, you know, we’ve been in a fortunate position where the business has been growing year on year, every year. Obviously during COVID it was a little bit tricky, but you know, we’re very proud. We didn’t let go of any stuff we, we we started an E commerce store called Spacer Store. We sold a few. Some of it from our favourite old suppliers, it just direct and mostly to keep the team busy because we we shut. We turned off our marketing for a year, so the business was.
Michael
Still, you know, profitable break even. But we wanted to keep them engaged and doing things and learning. And so they actually learned a lot about E commerce. They learn a lot about email marketing and things like that, which we weren’t so strong at before. We used to do 3. Emails a day and. You’ll do it breakfast, lunch and dinner. Minimum three. That’s right. You set that up so you know.
Susan
Yes, minimum 3.
Michael
Ohh so yes. Well look, but yeah, we’ve got an amazing team and you know those first two employees are still with us today Jr and Karen, I don’t know if you remember them from from deals and yeah. So they’re still with us. Yeah. Very fortunate to have a very, very loyal team with great tenure.
Susan
I do. And I also love the fact that you started to. Look at products that complemented. So no doubt you’re I’m assuming you probably still doing some of that, so I could see some real synergies there. And. Even selling boxes for people to pack things into through to the tape they use, or other types of storage boxes like plastic ones and everything that they could get to utilise for these spaces.
Michael
Yeah, absolutely. And you know we, we actually started in the storage and we thought that was really our basis. We, we and people were using those garages for parking and for the first year or so, we sort of pushed up against, we like, no, no, we’re a storage company and we’re like actually maybe we’re a storage and a parking company and now today most of our revenue comes from the parking side and we’ve bought some other businesses. Mark County here in Australia. We bought and then we’ve we’ve acquired and and merged with where I Park in in North America, just parking moved into BB. So you’re right, we’ve we’ve definitely listened to the customer and seen where the where their needs are.
Susan
I could. I don’t know why, but for some reason I just picture people now washing their cars in these new parking spots.
Michael
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Susan
Because they getting so excited about it and they just want to be shiny and. They go visit their car and just. Check it out as well. That might be more because of my husband. ‘S carpet anyway. Another story, another day. So I know that because of this technology is so digital focused technology would have a major impact on when you could actually do and deliver something because it’s about the opportunity. That comes up, and if matches tech, are you able to talk through some of the changes? I’ve happened to technology that have helped you evolve the. Businesses.
Michael
Yeah, sure. Well, we one thing we did differently at space. So when we started is we didn’t build our own technology. We believe that the hardest piece was actually going to be. Building the marketplace, so building the. The liquidity in the marketplace of building supply and demand and matching it together and essentially distribution and marketing was going to be the key challenge. And So what we did initially is we took an off the shelf package, which was called near me. It’s now called platform OS. Adam Broadway is the CEO there and a good mate, an Aussie living in the States and that that got us going for the first couple of years. And so we could iterate really quickly. We could build on top of it. It was very flexible.
Susan
Lovett.
Michael
It was built on on Ruby, very similar to like a Shopify type platform, but for two sided marketplaces it obviously had limitations. We couldn’t do everything we wanted. You couldn’t build an app on top of it. Now I think you can, but anyway, that’s how we got started. And then we decided at a point in time that we needed to have our own platforms. So we acquired a business and we built on top of that so account and now we have our own platform. We’ve built apps on top of that. Obviously, we were early into sort of AI and machine learning. And some of our search algorithms and things like. That. And we play with things like Bluetooth access devices and all sorts of things. So yeah, we definitely want to. Say head of the curve and really make it as easy as possible for consumers and our partners. We’ve invested a lot in analytics as well. So yeah, we’re ultimately a tech business underneath it all and that’s what a big part of our team does. We have a. You know, product and Dev team, which is globally distributed.
Susan
And it makes sense that data is also core to how you actually evolve and focus on areas for looking for that the stock to be able to fill up or where the people are that are inquiring all the time. So that you have this rich pool of data that you can actually then start to go, OK, this is a focus area for this time of year. Because of weather condition changes and things like that. But I say that would be very much the focus in America where they do have snow and things like that that happen.
Michael
Absolutely. Yeah. You know, January, February, we we only sell indoor parking, no outdoor parking. And and you know to to you know, they want to know, does it come with a snow plough or does it does the driveway get ploughed? All that sort of stuff. So yeah, lots of local nuances and. Absolutely. And the data is is invaluable for that.
Susan
So becoming an entrepreneur yourself has both risks and rewards. What are some of the key lessons you’ve learned along the way that you could share?
Michael
That’s a great question. Look, I’d say. Really, it’s a marathon or it’s a marathon of sprints. So yeah, you often hear about it’s a 10 year overnight success and most businesses you haven’t really heard of them until they’ve become successful, right? Which is usually 5 to 10 years in now there’s some overnight successes and some businesses that you know within a year.
Michael
Do they get? A huge number of users, some apps. Sometimes they come and. Go. Yeah, but usually. The long term sustainable ones take about 10 years to really come to fruition. So I guess that’s something it’s it’s sort of managing the pushing and patience and that’s something that’s I’d like to think I’m getting better at certainly in my earlier on I was pretty impatient.
Susan
I don’t blame you. You want that income straight away, you can see it. Why aren’t they coming? I I can. I can completely empathise with that situation.
Michael
It’s really I think it’s. About achieving your vision and bringing people along that journey and enrolling people in that vision and having people around you that support and and you know, fill the gaps. UM, so that’s super important. Most of my time today is really spent with the team and you know on the culture and that sort of stuff sometimes. But add me not my favourite thing, but.
Susan
Outsource.
Michael
Absolutely.
Susan
What excites you the most when you’re starting a new business?
Michael
It’s been a little while since I started a new one, but.
Susan
What do you remember about it?
Michael
I guess it’s yeah, yeah.
Susan
When he came up with the idea.
Michael
I think it’s just that excitement of you’ve got this vision in mind and it’s something that you. You really want to go out and kind of explore and achieve and build a great team. I love working with people. I love collaborating and like I said, we’ve been very fortunate to have a team that’s, you know, gone with us the whole journey so far and those. A lot of joined along the way and sort of stayed along. I find that exciting building teams building building stuff.
Susan
I I love that and I can attest to that too, because I’ve been part of one of your teams too, with the great culture and then building something bigger and bigger until it ended up getting. Bought. Which was absolutely phenomenal.
Michael
Yeah, it’s a lot of fun and lots of twists and turns. And yeah, never, never a dull moment. Right. So, yeah, we got appeals to my personality, yeah.
Susan
Exactly. Well then this leads perfectly into my last question. What brand? Any brand in the world best represents U&Y?
Michael
Well, I guess when I think about it, it really is my own brand, right? That’s the brand that I’ve built. It’s my baby, you know, you know, in the past that was built a rag. That was my baby. And I I really didn’t want to let go of it.
Susan
I know.
Michael
Space is technologies. That’s that’s. That’s my new baby. And maybe more of a teenager now. But yeah, I’d like to think that’s. That’s kind of the the essence of the brand that I want to bring to the, to the market and and to life and with the team that I’ve got and. Yeah, that’s what that’s that’s my passion. My passion project. Yeah.
Susan
I love that. I and thank you so much for your. Time today as as well. I just want to recap. So in regards to being an entrepreneur, it’s all about taking the risks of falling your gut when you know it makes sense. Generally doing some data going and checking in. If it’s sense check before you actually go forward to try and solve that problem. But not necessarily having the solution in. Times when you’re handling growth, do it. Start slow, be lean, and then grow as you need because you don’t know what’s going to happen and we might have to pivot. Technology is ever changing. Make sure to be consistent and check out what technology is doing so that you can be on the forefront if possible, because that will help you as an entrepreneur and there are risks and rewards, but it’s a long game. Make sure to actually know that it’s not going to be a success overnight. It may take time, but if there truly is a need for it and you know how to start. Talking to your potential customer. Stay in there. You never know where it might lead to you. Thank you again so much Mike. It’s been great to talk to you. Is any? Other final thoughts before we leave.
Michael
Thanks so much again, Susan. It’s been great to catch up and a bit of a walk down memory lane definitely made me a bit nostalgic there and there were great times at deals direct and thanks for being part of that journey and yeah, Congrats on all your success as well. And thanks for having me on your podcast. I really appreciate it.
Susan
Awesome. Thank you so much again. And for everyone else, make sure to keep following more 2 marketing to hear some more great. Podcasts with excellent guests. More to marketing.