Susan
More to marketing. Welcome to more to marketing. The podcast explores marketing, product and everything in between. I’m your host, Susan, and today we’re talking about empathy in marketing. I would love to introduce Mike, who has literally written a book on empathetic marketing. Mike has used his empathetic marketing approach to work with business owners. 7 figure coaches, startups and a lot of other service providers. His approach is people 1st and has been featured on TEDx, which is very exciting. Mike is also known to many as the marketing medic, so welcome, Mike. Great to see you today.
Mike
Hey, Susan. We know each other cuz you’re on my podcast. So this is awesome that we can reciprocate. Like this?
Susan
Exactly. We’re doing trade crazies. But tell everyone a bit more about you and how you become known as the marketing medic.
Mike
Well, you kind of gave it away in. Your intro to me.
I need a little bit.
Mike
But I worked as a as a I worked as a paramedic. For 12 years. And what I saw at the time separating myself from the other medics is most paramedics are adrenaline junkies. We like to, you know, start the idea and push the drug and fibrillate the chest and intubate and do all that cool stuff. And I like doing that. Too, but I found when I was on the call, I would talk to my patient more than I would do to my patient. Not not that I didn’t do when it needed to be done, but if there are other people there, like one of the things I did that was so different, like, especially as a student, is when you’re a student again, you want to do all this stuff like.
Thank you.
Mike
That’s it’s so exciting. But I remember when, like a a trauma would come into the ER. What I would do is I would go to the head of the patient and I would just talk to them and explain to them what is going on and what’s. Happening. And. Because most patients, when they go into the ER, they don’t really know what’s happening. They don’t know what’s like, why some of them don’t even know why. There’s very scary, right? And so there’s just something inside of me that wanted to address those concerns, while the nurses and the doctors and the other students were, like I say, starting the IV, pushing the.
Susan
Be scary.
Mike
Drugs doing all all that stuff. And and I I just think that made me such a much better paramedic. And then one day I was on the top of a Cliff, a 35 foot Cliff, and I and I accidentally fell off of it, and I broke my arm and I broke my leg and I broke my back and most paramedics, firefighters, police or whatever since we worked worked 12 hour shifts. We have a side hustle and my side hustle was doing corporate team building and this was in the late 1990s, and that was huge. In the region where I live in Canada. And I was doing that as a as a side hustle when I felt the Cliff. I was like, you know what? I think I’m ready to become an entrepreneur and pursue that sort that side of my life. Anyway, as I became an entrepreneur, I learned that the more empathy I I directed at my audience, my potential clients, the more clients I got. And so I sort of drew. Parallel from what I was doing as a medic on the empathy side to what I did in business.
Susan
I one of the things that really makes me very warm and fuzzy inside is. The whole piece around empathy and listening, there’s not a lot of people that do that. There’s a lot of markers that think they do but don’t really. And for you to actually see results in both fields and being able to transition it across is just amazing. So what makes you?
Mike
Yeah. So I just wanted out, so sorry listeners, but before we started this call, I was explaining to Susan how I’d met a hostage negotiator from.
Mike
Scotland and and how he thought like a lot of the tax that he uses is in hostage negotiation situations and in crisis intervention could apply to marketing and he sent me the bullet points. The top five things and the number four thing on his list. I’m not saying in any particular order was active listening and he said he said the exact same thing you did. He’s like most people think they listen. But they really don’t. And so I’m gonna interview him on my podcast. And ohh, he’s got eight. He’s got eight things that you can do to active, listen better. And so, yeah. So that’s that’s one of my questions to like, what are the 8 things to to allow us to listen better because yeah, I don’t think any of us listen as well as we could.
Susan
And 100% for everyone listening. We’re going to have the directions on how to listen to Mike and all of his fantastic podcasts as well. So you don’t miss out on that as well. Thanks, Susan. No, no, no. I I’ve loved your pieces, particularly the dragon. You know, she was she was absolutely fantastic. Yep.
Mike
Yes, yes. Yeah, dragon whisperer.
Susan
The one thing for me though, is with empathy, with marketing. How do people actually go about this? What makes it empathetic? Are you able to provide just a bit more information about that so people can actually start feeling this along with us?
Mike
Yeah. And so I created what I call the 4D’s of transformation. And so I think a lot of. Us. Know that to make a sale, you’ve got to get them from where they are right now to where they where, where they want to be or where you want them to be. Right. And I call that the 4D’s of transformation delivery. And you want to look so when? So you need to understand this and so that you can use it in the language and the messaging when you create your campaigns. And so in the short term, what you want to look at is their, their their difficulties and their desires. So like, let’s just use weight loss as an example, because we all understand weight loss. I think all of us didn’t want to.
Mike
Lose some weight or gain some muscle or. You know, whatever. And so, so like a difficulty for for, for me would be like because I’m getting older. I was getting a little uncomfortable taking my shirt off to mow the lawn because what if somebody goes drives by and sees the, you know, the little roll over my shorts? Like, that’s that’s a difficulty. Right. And so that’s in the short term like, I would like to.
Mike
Next week, model on with my shirt off. How am I gonna do that? And so. And so that’s the difficulty. And so I would want my desire is is like a quick easy way. To attain that goal, so the desires are are usually just the solution to the difficulty, but also when we’re talking about weight loss in the long term, you want to look at their dreads and their dreams. So these are a lot broader in. Scope. Yeah. And again, they’re more long term. So when we’re looking at weight loss, it’s like, Oh my gosh, like I’m. Looking at maybe diabetes, maybe heart disease, you know these are bigger things and and so. And so my does my dreams are to not have diabetes or to not have heart disease? My dreams are to, you know, still be active when I’m in my cause. I like, I like to hike, and I like to bike. I like to canoe. I don’t wanna stop doing that when I’m 60 years old. Right. I want to be. Doing that in my 70s in my 80s. Because I know people now who are in their 70s and they can’t leave the house, you know, and then I know I love using Mick Jagger as an example. Like I I don’t know if he’s like 70 or he’s 80 already, but ohh my God.
Susan
Yeah. How did he survive?
Mike
Well, like, just look what Mick Jagger can do at his like, most 30 year olds can’t go from concert to concert like running like he runs across the stage for like 2 1/2 hours and he’s singing. And so that’s what’s possible for an 80 year. So my dream is to have, you know, Mick Jagger’s health at at.
Mike
At that age, right. And so that’s one way you can sort of like get an understanding of where your audience is is to really dig deep into their 40s of transformation. Their difficulties are desires, their dreads. And their dreams.
Susan
I those four days really do make sense, particularly in the examples that you’ve provided. Because it’s really touching on what those individuals. Need and value. And that means again, coming back to the active listening as well about them listening to themselves, what they actually want out of those four days as well.
Mike
Yeah. And going back to my HostGator friend and I mentioned this before the call is he said he would spend 10 hours preparing for a 5 minute conversation. And you asked like, what is he gonna do for 10 hours? Right. And so one of the things he would do is go over and he has his own terms for it. But he would. He has something that is similar to the 4D’s, right. But the other thing that he would look at, and this is what we do and in empathic marketing, is really identify all of your audiences false, limiting beliefs because we’re all super sceptical, especially now. There’s so many scammers. There’s so much, especially in the United States. You know, Donald Trump made fake news popular, like everything’s fake news. Now, like we don’t trust, we don’t trust anybody anymore. And so.
Susan
Yeah.
Mike
Regardless of how good your offer is in the mind of your of your potential buyer, they’re saying no. They’re just like their default is no, no, no. And so you wanna identify trying to think of from, from their perspective, why are they gonna say no? And there’s three reasons core reasons why people usually say no. And so these are the ones you want to address. First, they don’t believe in you. OK? They don’t know you. They don’t know if you’re a liar. They know if you’re a scammer. They don’t believe in you first. Like, yeah. Yeah, it’s like, oh, yeah. You know, Susan’s great, but I don’t know if her product really works. Right.
Susan
Exactly. No trust.
Mike
Yeah, you know, so you need to address that. Like I like Susan, but I don’t know if she’s ever sold this thing before. I like. I don’t know if it works. Right. And so there’s that. And then the third. And this is actually usually the biggest one. It’s like I love Susan. I know her product works. Her weight loss product works, but I don’t think it’ll work for me. Right. So I would think that about your weight loss. Susan, because you’re a woman. And I’d be like, OK, yeah, Susan, weight loss product is great cuz it works for women. It worked for Susan. But I’m a dude, right? So it’s not gonna work for me. So when you. For having empathy for me and having understanding for me, you’re going to say you know what Mike is going to think that it doesn’t work for him because he’s a man. And so I need to address why it. Works for both genders.
Susan
Ohh, that again empathy active listening. Putting yourself in those shoes. But I think a lot of people might mix up empathy with sympathy when it comes to marketing. How can we avoid that? Because they are very different.
Mike
Yeah. And so I just happened across a video that explains that so well and you might have seen the video. I think it was a viral video, it was in a different bunch of different languages. Anyway, picture this. There’s this blind guy sitting in a park and he’s got a sign that says I’m blind. Please help. And everybody just walks past. Anyways, that looks at him and says Ohh, that poor guy. And they walk past. They want they see them all. That poor guy, they they have sympathy for that guy. They feel really sorry from all. Look. At that, blind guy can’t see. I feel sorry for that guy. That’s sympathy. Right then. This this girl comes along and takes a sign and turns it over and writes something on the sign and puts the sign back down. And then she was. Passed away and next thing in the video, all these people are coming and they’re dropping money into his cap and you know he’s hearing all the change he’s seeing bills flying all over the place.
Susan
Lots and lots of money. Yep.
Mike
He’s smiling. Lots of money and and and then the girl comes back and he asks her. He’s like, so like, what did you do? And she said I said the same thing but with different words. And what? He said is it’s a beautiful day and I can’t see it. So that is empathy. So now the people who are walking in this beautiful park, right. So now instead of sympathising for that blind man, they’re empathising with them because they’re in the park, they’re with their partner. They’re holding hands. They’re enjoying this beautiful day. And here’s this guy. He’s not enjoying the day the same way. So they have a shared experience, but with a different perception. And so that’s empathy. And that’s just that’s just such a succinct video to explain the. Difference between sympathy and empathy.
Susan
And it is a very moving, touching video I happen to come across it on LinkedIn myself and it it. It is very, very short, but it does pack such a big punch when you see that change out and then you realise the subtle word changing and what a difference it makes.
Mike
Yeah. And I whoever made the video wasn’t making a differentiation between sympathy and empathy. That was my perception of it. And and I think my perception is quite.
Susan
Accurate to agree with you on that, and I think that really does show that when you’re doing marketing, you’ve gotta be careful of how you do your messaging because. You want people to be connected to your brand, not just look at it and ohh yeah, whatever you actually want them to feel part of it, feel that they need it, feel like it’s part of their purpose and goes along with their values to a certain extent too.
Mike
Yeah. And just as an aside, as a marketer. The and I’m not blow my own horn here. But you know, I saw this video and I, you know, I had the same, you know, emotional tug that you did. But I stopped to think about it like, and that’s when like, ohh that’s sympathy and that’s that’s empathy and the reason I say this is because.
Mike
You don’t want to just be thinking about marketing when you’re working on your business. Like and, that’s what. That’s what everything goes back to my Hostess negotiator friend. He’s like you can’t.
Susan
It’s perfect timing.
Mike
Be. Yeah, you can’t be a good hostage negotiator if you only practise your tactics on the job like you’ve got to be doing this all the time, right? You’ve all you’ve always got to be putting. So with empathy, you’ve always got to be thinking about. The other person. Shoes. And it’s just so funny. Like, I don’t know how many times people give you instructions for something and they give you like, the last instruction of of a series of five, because they just assume, you know the first four because they do, right. Yeah. And so that’s another thing that I do differently is that whenever I give anybody instructions, I always like, let’s start like this is step one. Like I I understand that they’re not where I am and I think that’s a big mistake. Most of us make as we make the assumption, other people in the same space that we are, regardless of what that space is.
Susan
Exactly I. I do what I call little mini field trips, so with my team we’ll we’ll we regularly go out to lunch or to local little supermarket and lunchtime and grab things. And I find myself doing little mini lessons on the job just because my assumption is I’d rather think you don’t know and you tell me you do then. You don’t know and I never know at all. Right. So I was literally. I was literally in the shopping centre yesterday. And. The person next to me was looking for a home brand of a. Product. And home brand products, which is the usually the supermarkets named products, so it’s the cheapest one on the shelf. It’s usually at the very, very bottom or the very very top because the prime spot is by people in the eye eye in the middle is where people pay the most money for on those shots. But this person has never lived in marketing world before, so straight away said OK bottom shelf and we looked down and it was there and he. Just looked at. Me. Like what? So I I educated him on a bit of supermarket marketing and placement so that he would now understand that in the future. So we’re both on the same. Field. So 100% you need to be able to make sure you don’t make assumptions because you don’t know where you’re going to end up together.
Mike
Yes, very good.
Susan
Are you able to share some examples of empathetic marketing that has significantly impacted a customer journey? Or maybe loyalty or engagement?
Mike
Yeah. So I think like what? One of my first clients is what launched my career. And so I was asked to go out. I was asked to help a boot camp gym in California. And so they’re on the Coast, California, where there is no shortage of, you know, the the 20 somethings looking for the ideal beach pot.
Susan
Mm-hmm.
Mike
And so this is a small two brothers owned. It was a family boot camp gym. And they they were ripped. Ohh my God. They these guys look like superheroes. They were like 6 foot two and just like 4% body fat, just muscles bulging everywhere. Oh my gosh. And that’s the type of client they wanted to attract. And so they were looking at what Gold’s Gym advertised. And so in the United States golds gym, LA Fitness, what these gyms were doing. Like. OK, so Gold’s Gym is crushing it. LA Fitness is crushing it. We’re going to do what they’re doing. And so they’re doing all these advertisements with like these super fit. You know, there’s just stocked.
Susan
Hmm.
Mike
Photos of you know the black and white girl and the rip tank top and. You know like.
Susan
Oh yeah, yeah.
Mike
You know, 6 pack. And they weren’t getting any any traction like nobody was coming to their boot camp. Yeah. And so I actually, I flew out there and I went to their gym and I took a couple of classes and I didn’t see, you know, Heidi Klum or, you know, anything super models.
Susan
Yep, someone with ripped abs just in there in the class.
Mike
No one was in there, right? It was all middle aged like it was California. A lot of middle aged Hispanic women and middle aged men a little bit. All of them were overweight, like the only fit people. I do an air coach. You can’t see me, but the only fit people in the.
Mike
See, there’s another example of empathy, like when I did the air quotes, I realised that your audience is listening and I’m conscious of that. So I said so that’s.
Susan
Yes.
Mike
Why I said that anyway, just. Conscious of that? As well, yeah. And so the only really fit people in the gym were the instructors. And so I said, OK, let’s look at this. If this is the type of people you you’ve attracted in the past, why don’t we try to attract more of those people and?
Susan
Because they’ll tell their friends, maybe, etcetera.
Mike
Yeah. And so this is where you want to look at the have the empathy and understand that that 20 something beach body 20 somethings yes they want to have a beach body but more important than that they want to have that selfie of them at the at La Fitness gym at Gold’s Gym. You know with all the big years and all the weights and all this stuff like it’s the status. Of being at that gym. That is probably in today’s society, more important than the result, right? And there was just no, there’s no status to being in a little mom and pop, you know, corner in the mall.
Susan
There’s no famous person that was there or anything like that to give it the attraction.
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. And so like their gym could get results for these 20 somethings. But that’s not where they wanted to get the results. And So what I ended up doing was I got a woman. From. The gym, who had lost 60 lbs. But she said and she was still like 80 lbs. You do £100 from her from her goal. Like she was a big. Woman and during the interview, she just broke down crying, saying like, how how much she loved the gym because at home so you got to picture this again at the empathy. Like, if you’re a woman who’s like 80 lbs overweight, what does your family look like? Probably not. Supermodels, right? It’s probably.
Susan
Yeah, you’ve you’ve been feeding them.
Mike
It’s probably a genetic thing and right ever. Right. So your family’s big. And so at home, they’re like, oh, you’re trying to lose weight. That’s cute. You know, like, we’ve all done that, and it’s not gonna happen. So you go to your little gym for a few days and, you know, we’ll see you back at the buffet next week.
Mike
And so that’s how she described her home life. But at the gym she was she was with like minded people who, having the same on the same journey and she just felt so accepted and welcomed and understood there. Yeah. That for her like be sort of like the the 20 somethings who wanted to have the selfie in front of the whatever to put on Instagram. They look at me working out like I’m all about fitness, right? For her, it was the same thing, but she wasn’t posting on Instagram. But it’s just important for her to be in that community. And so I’m not saying this video went viral, but Oh my gosh, and the video quality, this is one of my first videos ever done was so bad. I just did it with my phone and I didn’t have the mic and the angle was.
Susan
It probably made it more authentic though.
Mike
Ohh, but it was terrible. And then like looking back at what I did now, like I had this music track over top. That was way too loud. Like it was such a poor quality video that I made, but it didn’t matter because her message came through and that’s why I say about empathic marketing. It’s all about the message. So many people I know, like, are are trying to build a funnel. And I think it’s about the funnel. It’s not about the funnel. It’s about the message that the funnel delivers. So anyway, what we were able to do was we were able to get them a 36 to one return on ads then so the two brothers, yeah, the two brothers before I got there were working full time jobs and all their money was going in just to keep the gym afloat. And within a year, both of them quit their full time jobs to work the gym full.
Susan
Amazing.
Mike
Time because they could. Right. And so like that’s the difference and and so like in America, I don’t know how big if Russell Brunson is super famous in in Australia now, but he’s the founder click funnels and he’s all about funnel hacking.
Susan
The perfect dream.
Mike
Right. And I’m a big believer that funnel hacking doesn’t work because LA Fitness’s funnel works. Orange Theory funnel works. Gold’s Gym funnel works. Those are awesome funnels that bring in millions of dollars. But Joe and Ted’s boot camp gym can’t hack those super successful funnels you like.
Susan
Go.
Mike
If you’re going to hack a funnel, the hacking is LA Gym took the time to understand who their audience is and what they want, and that’s the message they created. So that’s you need to hack. Is that understanding that that business has? For their audience.
Susan
And the the great thing is the owners listened. They realised that the advice that they were getting was that look what you’ve got now. You’re you’re not attracting those people, you’re not going to be attract them away. But how can you attract more of these people who want to be here and want to stay and not just take photos of themselves, make people feel uncomfortable?
Mike
Right. Yeah.
Susan
No.
Mike
So that was that. That made me feel good to get that win for those guys.
Susan
I think. Oh, that’s definitely that’s a. That’s a beautiful example. I love that one. Marketers really do like to curate a lot of content, and they like to say that they practise empathy. But are there any strategies that you can actually put in place or recommend so they. Are in a better place to do it and not just say it? Apart from your 4D step, is there any other little tricks that you could share that could help you?
Mike
Yeah. And so when I’m working with contents, when I’m mentoring my clients, it’s I I want to build out that list of false limiting beliefs, because we all have problems and we all think we know the solution. And So what you have to do is you have to meet them where they are and say, listen, hey, so let I I know I know I made up like Susan Walsh’s, you know weight loss. Programme like. Yeah, I’ve seen the Walsh and I’m. Yeah. Hey, I’m Susan Wallace. And you know, I’m known for helping women. You know, drop 30 lbs in 30 days or what?
Susan
I’m gonna be a millionaire.
Mike
But listen, my programme works for men too. And here’s the reason why it works for both men and women. And it all comes back to, and this is where part of your marketing you want to have what I call your big differentiator, like what sets you apart from everybody else. And so. So one of the things I’ve I’ve succeeded with is isogenix. You have isogenix in the United States is a multi level marketing. Product it’s a it’s a protein place the meal replacement shake. Anyways, I don’t know if they knew it, but their unique mechanism was cellular cleansing and So what? Cellular cleanse. It’s intermittent fasting. OK, but The thing is, is intermittent fasting like everybody has heard of that. Everybody does it right. And so they put their own name on it. They called it cellular cleansing and they give you the. And they give you the science behind it. So This is why, you know, if Susan Walsh’s weight loss programme, if you had sell your cleansing, you’re like the reason it works for men is the same reason it. Works for women because during our two week, first two after our first two weeks of doing XY and Z, we have a two day cellular class. And let me explain what happens during the cellular cleansing process is that within the first eight hours the cellular cleanse, your human growth hormone increases 10X. And by the time you wake up in the morning, your human growth hormone. Is now up 30X and it keeps going like that for up for 48 to 72 hours. And if you don’t know what human growth hormone does. Is it burns fat? So This is why I can I can say with confidence that Susan Walsh’s, you know weight loss works for both men and women because it’s not sex based, it’s human growth hormone based. And our bodies use that hormone in the exact same way. So that’s that’s a video that you would do right.
Susan
Again, heading back to science facts and trying to eliminate those. Questions or I trust, should I keep trusting in? I love that that’s it’s definitely an eye opening approach to do it. I don’t believe a lot of places within Australia do that because a lot of that type of marketing, I see more towards the US than within Australia. They’re a bit more direct in Australia. Some of those ones do have a little bit of that, but there’s a lot of. I don’t know about America, but Australia’s definitely very regulated and claims need to be substantiated. So when I when I used to work for a company that was American based, there were very different claims. It was the same product, same ingredients for America versus Australia because of how strict it was. On what you could do to get that believable.
Mike
And that’s why it’s so cool with the example that I gave you because we don’t have, because the claims we’re making aren’t based on your programme. They’re based on human growth hormone.
Susan
That’s just science.
Mike
And that is in like 100 different, that’s just science. Like you can look in any medical journal, you can see what human growth hormone does, right?
Mike
And then what’s cool about isagenix too? And here I am trying to pitch my MO M product on your.
Susan
Podcast here. All good. The links will be in the keynotes everyone.
Mike
But but one of the other falsely believes like ohh so you know I’m gonna be fasting for two days. No, no, no. I like food too much. Well, guess what. Isogenix their two day cellular cleanse. The reason you’re hungry is usually not because of your stomach. It’s because of your brain. Your brain is getting isn’t getting the hormones from your stomach to say you’re full, and so an isogenix 2 days cellular cleanse isn’t a true fast because you eat about 250 calories throughout the day, which is far less than your normal 2000. Calories. But these are super dense calories that have that. Just trick your. Brain that promote these these chemicals and these hormones that make your brain feel like you’re full. So this is a fast that you can do because you do get to nibble and snack throughout the day, cause actually with you you consume something every four hours. Whether it’s an adaptogen or, you know a little bit of calories or there’s a few different things that you eat every four hours, you’re doing something and your brain is staying active and it and it thinks you’re full and so. So so you don’t have that all those hunger cravings that you do on a on a regular intermittent fast. So there’s another piece of video content explaining why. Oh, because you believe, like everybody believes, intermittent fasting works, I don’t think anybody says no, that’s hogwash. That’s garbage. But what we do believe is that there’s no way I’m going two days or three days without eating. There’s no way I know it works, but it won’t work for me. But I just explained to you, just give it a try because we are going to feed your brain, not your stomach. We’re going to feed your brain through this process. So you. Won’t feel hungry. It’s like and if you want. It. Bad enough? You know you’ll take that risk.
Susan
And for a short term with the guarantees that probably come with it as well, that would make it feel even more secure, because usually a lot of those have 730 day kind of guarantees with them as well. So it’s almost like why wouldn’t I want to then because they’re putting literally the money where it is. So if it doesn’t work out for me, I get a full refund.
Mike
That’s right. Yeah, yeah.
Susan
I think that’s one of the clever. Things a lot of the. To try before you buy, almost do so that they get that trust happening where you’ve got nothing to lose apart from a bit of time and.
Mike
Yes.
Susan
Trying something new.
Mike
And so you said trust and that’s going back to my hostage negotiator. So the first thing in his his something Ascension ladder, but it’s trust. Trust. And then once you have trust, then you can start to influence. Then you can persuade.
Susan
Yep.
Mike
And so, yeah, that’s something else. I’ll learn more about when I interview, when I interview Paul.
Susan
Makes complete sense. And his techniques on it as. Well.
Mike
Yeah.
Susan
One of the things I personally love around certain times of the year is when the advertising actually does pull on you in some way shape or form. So at Christmas time there’s some beautiful advertising on TV or even visual merchandising within Windows. That really tries to bring the family in, particularly, say Christmas. Christmas is one of those. What are some of your favourite empathetic marketing moments that you have seen?
Mike
I think it’s an Australian video, so maybe you know the one. It’s a hardware store.
Susan
Ohh yeah yeah.
Mike
So it’s a hardware store and it’s just like five year. So the video, you don’t know, it’s a hardware store, but you see this like 5 year old kid, you know roll out of bed, he goes in the kitchen, he makes some eggs, he pours himself a coffee.
Mike
And.
Susan
OK.
Mike
Anyway, he just, he goes, goes through his day until he goes to the family owned hardware store and he opens and he opens up the shop. And I’m I’m gonna. I’m butchering the. Action of it. But like say, it’s a huge, it was a viral video and then what happens is it morphs like from this five year old kid into like the 35 year old store owner or whatever. And the point is it’s like, this is just a family owned thing and oh man. Like, say, I remember the feeling I got from it. I don’t remember the exact.
Susan
Yeah. No, I don’t know that one. I’ll have to. Look that one up, there’s.
Mike
Yeah, it’s pretty. Yeah, because I remember I saw it and I wanted to find it, and I did a couple of took me like 3 or 4 minutes on Google to search it and it popped up because it’s it’s a big video.
Susan
Awesome. And we’ll have to have a look for that one. I’ll add that to the the keynotes as.
Mike
Yeah, put in the show notes cause it’s really good. It’s really good. And like there’s no, there’s no. There’s audio like, there’s music behind it. But there’s no talking, right, and it’s just.
Susan
Well for everyone, yeah. Yeah.
Mike
I don’t know if you also could.
Susan
It’s that that, that art. Of storytelling.
Mike
Right.
Susan
Storytelling seems to be an art that’s in a lot of these empathetic marketing pieces, no matter if they’re big advertising pieces, radio anywhere they may be, or even the product themselves, to give that feeling that comes along with it. Do you? Do you have any tips or tricks that you’ve done when it comes to creating that?
Susan
Storytelling moment.
Mike
You know, that’s something I need to I think I need to work on because.
Susan
Like if.
Mike
It’s something I. Do naturally and so almost everything. And so ohh, one of the things that I can’t wait to talk to Paul about Austin negotiator. He’s like there are three reasons that I want to keep that I want to listen to you and if you booked me on your podcast I’ll tell you what those three reasons.
Mike
OK, so he hasn’t. Told me what they are yet. And so again, like the way I was a man. Panic. Just the way it’s the way I was right and I had to reflect on that and say ohh wow. Yeah, that’s right. When all the other students were running to start the IV, I just ran to the head so I could talk to the patient. Well, that’s different. Like, why did I do that? Right. So I had to reflect on that. And so when it comes to storytelling, I think all the questions that you’ve even asked me. Today I answered with a story like I talked about. You know, when I was a paramedic, how I did that, I talked about, you know, the gym. You know, it’s it’s always, it’s always stories. So.
Susan
Yes, exactly.
Mike
Yeah. So how do you do it, though? Yeah. So I like. I had the 4D’s of transformation delivery. I have identifying false selling beliefs, so I’ve got the, you know, the ******** tactics that you can use. I haven’t developed a structure for storytelling yet, but I’ll work on that.
Susan
Maybe that will be well, maybe there will be book 3 then.
Mike
Yes, because we already talked books, book Two is going to be based on, you know, interviews with the Hostess Scotland Yard hostage negotiator.
Susan
100%. What excites you most about empathetic marketing? Because we can hear your passion. Your you’re so driven by this and you clearly love what you’re doing, getting the results. But what excites you the most?
Mike
You know, it’s funny because. I’m I’m a I’m torn in my in my mind cause. On the surface, like I just see how terrible people are in the world, but at the same time, I’m always helping them. Yeah, even though I don’t want to because I think you’re just.
Mike
Bad for the? Planet and so I think that’s the thing about empathic marketing is it’s just that I like understanding people. I like knowing where they’re coming from. Like so, here’s another story. Like road rage, right? So you know, there’s crazy drivers on the. Rd. Well, a number of years back I rescued a dog. Now that’s what I do. I rescue dogs and.
Susan
You have. You have a lot of dogs and they are beautiful and they love.
Mike
I have 55.
Susan
To eat firewood.
Mike
I have 5 rescues behind me right now, but yeah, so I I’ll foster a dog and then find another home. So anyway, I fostered this this dog named Rollo and I found him another home and anyway, I’m not going to make this a super long story, but. Rollo got extremely sick, like life threatening sick, and the rest you called. It was heat stroke, like Super Bad, super bad heat stroke. And so the rescue called me and said, Mike, Roll those in trouble. Can you can you do something to help? I’m like, I don’t know, I’m getting the truck right now. And so I. So I was. So I we live in the country and and the the his new home was in half an hour away on back country. It’s like I’m driving like a lunatic. I’m driving like a crazy person and there’s like this guy going. It’s it’s it’s not. It’s a secondary Hwy. It’s not busy at all, but I can’t pass. And I’m like, running his ***. And I’m like, you know, lunging up towards him. And then we’re. We’re coming towards the stop sign. I’m going to try to pass him before he gets to the stop sign, which is super dangerous. And that guy just hates me. He’s like, who is this? *******. Right, because he is perfectly in his right. He should think that of me because I’m driving like a complete lunatic. But had he known where I was coming from, like I all I could think about was helping Rollo like, yeah, I’m paramedic.
Susan
Yeah, it doesn’t matter. Yeah, I gotta get there as fast as possible. I could do something for him, maybe.
Mike
Every second counts, right?
Mike
And so I think that’s something. That happened a number of years ago and so I think when I see people driving like idiots, I think most of them are idiots. They just are. They’re bad people. But now I’m more open to giving them the benefit of the doubt. And even if they are just being an idiot, like what? What brought them? And you talked about with your, with your staff, like taking them. On parks like on on days and. I do that as well and it’s just I walk around, I see people with such scowls on their face. I’m like, that’s not a happy person. And like, why? Like why like you live in Australia? I live in Canada. You ask wherever like this is where our people are listening and Oh my gosh, we have so much to be thankful for like. There’s and. But they’re scowling for a reason because of the their situation that they, the way they perceive it. Now, if you lived in, you know, the desert of Africa, you’d probably, yeah. Give me that situation. I would love to have, like a. $80,000 car.
Susan
I’ll trade any day.
Mike
Yeah, like so you’re having trouble making that $80,000 car payment? That’s a problem. I can live with, right? The fact that, like so anyways. Yeah, I don’t know if I answer your question, but it’s just I I think I like understanding people and I like I think I like. The. Challenge of. Of removing that. Bias that that I think I have.
Susan
Yep, that that makes complete sense as well because. It fits perfectly with what you’re doing for your own career. The coaching as well, and then writing the books to be able to. Help others too.
Mike
Right, yeah.
Susan
But plus, of course, your podcast.
Mike
Exactly.
Susan
Well, I I have one question I ask everybody.
Mike
Yeah. OK.
Susan
The question is what brand any brand in the world best represents you and why?
Mike
That’s a tough one, but I would probably go with Patagonia.
Susan
OK.
Mike
Are you familiar with Patagonia?
Susan
Like that makes sense because of where you live. And you’re you’re with outdoors.
Mike
Yeah. Well, it’s outdoor wear, it’s outdoor wear, but it was founded by a group of like surfers and rock climbers. And so I used to rock climb so I can feel that. And I’ve laid on a surfboard. I’ve tried to surf a few times. I’m not a surfer. I’ve been, I’ve been. I’ve tried surfing like six or seven days and I’m not a surfer but but anyway. Had I had, I had.
Susan
At least you tried.
Mike
Had I been born on the Oceanside, probably. Sure. But anyway, so and a lot of what they do and what I like about them is their authenticity. So they talk. So they’re one of The Pioneers in recycling like the the companies are. Yeah. So they’re like recycling plastics like most of their fleece wear is, you know, old old pot bops. Right. And then you also also use organic cottons and so.
Mike
They were the first to do. That and their their gear costs a little bit more than some other outdoor gear, but that’s because they’re also they value paying their labourers fair wage regardless of the country they’re they’re all paid a fair wage. They don’t they don’t you know get by the cheapest labour that. They can find.
Mike
But what’s really cool about them is they started. Programme, called warn wear. So what? They were encouraging their their audience based to to do is. Don’t Buy a new jacket just because yours has a hole in the sleeve. Patch it. Patch your pad to go in your jacket, use it for another three years, and then if you think you need another jacket, buy it. Then they weren’t encouraging this consumer mentality that we all have and that is like.
Susan
Interesting.
Mike
So opposite of what a business is supposed to do, they’re like, hey, you know if. One day, your zipper. Doesn’t go up. Throw that thing out, you know.
Susan
You can’t. You can’t fix that. No. Come buy a. New one.
Mike
No, buy a new one, right?
Susan
And you need one in different colour every year, even though when you. Come in black. Yep.
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. And so yeah, I just. I love what they’ve, I love their mission for the environment. I used to now. Now my mission is to help dogs. But in university, I was. I was more about the environment. And for me, it doesn’t matter what your mission is, is that? You have one. Right. Whether it’s women’s rights, whether it’s LGBTQ or whether it’s the environment or whatever, it’s great that you have one and you don’t just, you know, fly your flag. They donate a lot of their profits to these organisations. So it’s not just, you know, it’s just not talking the talk that they’re walking the walk so.
Susan
I do, yes.
Mike
Yeah, yeah. If I could be, if I could work with the company, I’d probably be Patagonia.
Susan
And I think that one fits a lot with your values as well. So it’s a perfect fit plus the outdoors, yeah, because you love getting out and about and you’re in a beautiful remote location as well. Thank you so.
Fixed.
Susan
Much thank you so much Mike for sharing. You’ve you’ve really opened our eyes to what empathetic marketing can be. First steps are always going to be 1 getting your book, but then understanding how the 4D. These in transformation can do delivery, so the difficulties and desires for your short term dreads and dreams for your long term, but also really focusing in on the false limiting beliefs to try and get rid of those for whoever you’re trying to persuade to come along and try your service or try your product. But the the biggest thing is you need to be authentic and also believe that you are doing the right thing and it’s not just being said, it is actually something that you have worked on and earned and can share with whoever you’re trying to bring on the journey because it won’t. They will know they’ll know if you’re authentic or not. It’s all about your messaging. Make sure your messaging is also really clean and crisp for them. If you’re ever doing advertising as well, bring back the the active listening of what do they actually want to hear, what actually makes? You might think. Like the gym that you’re supposed to have all these big muscly people in your gym, but in reality, the people wanting to go to your gym is the full location, convenience price or the community is a Hispanic family. The the ladies all want to go there because they’re going to share recipes, feel good, feel fit, and actually. Build this community within themselves, so make sure you’re actually doing the right thing, not just for your business, but also for your target market. By thinking about them and their empathetic needs as well, because then you actually can build a bigger and stronger business, just like the example that we got from Mike today. Have I missed anything that you’d like to add in there, Mike?
Mike
I don’t think so. That was. A. Perfect summary. Thank you so much.
Susan
Not a problem at all, but again, don’t forget to order your copy of empathetic marketing five steps to unlock your new empathetic marketing superpower available right now on Amazon. Make sure to get that one. It is fantastic. Mine is coming soon. It’s. I’m still waiting for it to arrive. To be honest, it has a fantastic image on the front of Mike with one of his horses. So you can. Visualise Mike as well out in the country enjoying his hikes and Patagonia wear as well. But to everyone else, don’t forget to add more to marketing to your playlist so you don’t miss out on any future. Fabulous guests.
Mike
Actually, I do have one thing, sorry. OK. For it. Yeah. So I’ve got an offer. It’s called a gap analysis offer. And so. Ohh. And so you talked about this earlier with with the guarantee with isagenix.
Susan
Fantastic.
Mike
How you know, you might you, you you’re willing to try isagenix if there’s that third? The guarantee and the guarantees are so important and so with my gap analysis I I take it one step further so my gap analysis call, oh, we’re going to restart the podcast. I hope that’s OK. But this is a super super valuable lesson I’m going.
Mike
To share with. You right now. So my gap analysis offer is a strategy call, OK. And so I think.
Mike
Most of us in this field, we know what a strategy call means and it means that ohh you’re gonna get me on the phone and you’re gonna pitch me on your high ticket coaching or your software or what have you, right? And so. Understanding false, limiting beliefs. I know that if I’m offering this to your audience and they’re like, yeah, Mike sounds like a great guy, but I don’t. I don’t have. I can’t afford to do his coaching or whatever, so I’m not. And he sounds like he can sell pretty good. So I don’t. Want to put myself at risk? So here’s what my gap analysis operates it’s a 30 minute strategy session where I’m going to show you how to it’s a gap, so get you from where you are to where you want where you want. To be in 30 minutes OK with your marketing. And because I want to recognise your false leaning beliefs, if I don’t deliver on that promise, if you don’t think that 30 minutes was well spent, I’m not going to give you your money back. I’m. Gonna give you. Twice your money back and the reason for that is because. The way I look at it. I will risk not making any money with you on a 30 minute call, right? It doesn’t. If it doesn’t cost me anything and I get to pitch you on my super expensive coaching, then that’s worth it to me, right? So I’m saying I’m not gonna. You can. You you’re you. You’re gonna make money on this call regardless. Either. I’m going to help you with your business or I’m going to give you as much money as you pay for the call doubles that right. Worth your time? Right. So now I’ve got some skin in the game too.
Susan
Yep, so it’s worth your time.
Mike
But you’re still thinking ohh, but you sound like a pretty good salesman. And I don’t want to hire a coach right now. So if during that 30 minute session I try to sell you on anything, it doesn’t matter if it’s on my coaching. One of the softwares I affiliate for, whether it’s on isagenix, it doesn’t matter if I try to sell you on anything in that 30 minutes. I’m gonna give you. What do you think? Twice your money back. So I’ve got this. I called the double double money back guarantee. And so that just helps my uh, my audience feel a little bit safer in booking this gap analysis call. And so it’s regularly a $97.00 call, but if you go to becausebusinessispersonal.com and enter the word podcast.
Susan
Nice.
Mike
And the coupon code. You’ll get $50 off.
Susan
Amazing amazing value.
Mike
Yeah. And so like I say, yeah, and like I say, so the worst case scenario, if you get on a gap analysis calls and you’re gonna make 50 bucks, that’s the worst thing that can happen.
Susan
Exactly. And I think everyone and anyone could definitely benefit from this. Is there a time limit we need to put on this as well? Michael will put that into. The show notes.
Mike
No, I cause you I don’t know if you’re going to launch this podcast tomorrow or like middle of February, every podcast I’m on is different. Exactly. And so, yeah, so. You know it’s. Like like I love these calls. I just love these calls. Like I I yeah, I like doing them like the the the gap analysis calls because yeah, I like seeing. I like seeing other problems. I like thinking about them and it’s called a 30 minute gap analysis. But they’re usually closer to an hour. It’s like you can imagine. I get a little bit. About about the subject.
Susan
I’ll definitely, and I think that’s an absolutely fantastic value as well. Not only will you get 30 minutes with Mike, he’ll go through the gap analysis specifically for your needs on your. Topic going through with examples and recommendations and you get to save $50 by using the code podcast. I think that’s absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for offering that to my audience. We’ll make sure we add it to the show notes so they know the exact URL as well and the code and hopefully you have a lot of calls and you can help even more.
Mike
Yes, you’re welcome.
Susan
People on their empathetic journey.
Mike
Thank you.
Susan
Wonderful. Everyone else, don’t forget to add more to marketing to your playlist for more future fabulous guests. More to marketing.
Mike is offering a special – $50 off his gap analysis session! Go to Because Business is Personal and enter to coupon code podcast (valid in 2024).
